The Laura Doyle Interview: Author Of The Surrendered Wife

At the back of your book, you are described as a former shrew. A shrew, according to Merriam-Webster, is an ill-tempered and scolding woman. I’m going to ask a two-fold question because I think this will shed light on your whole approach on shalom bayit, or relationship between husband and wife. Do you agree with this definition and why were you a former shrew?

Shalom bayit! Very important concept. I agree with that definition. I was a humorless toothache of a wife. I don’t think I realized how scolding and ill-tempered I was back in the battle days. I thought I was being helpful and that my intentions were good. I thought that I was going to help improve my husband, tell him how to be more ambitious. That didn’t work at all; he didn’t want anything to do with me. He was very distant. I was very lonely and heartbroken, and, unfortunately, my solution was to become even more ill-tempered. I kind of doubled down, thinking if he sees me upset, then he will really be motivated to change. That never worked. My husband was much more inspired when I got the information that I have now, which has given us shalom bayit.

Who is the book’s target audience?

It’s for any woman who is feeling heartbroken, lonely, exhausted, and overwhelmed with all the responsibilities at home. It is really for any woman who values a good marriage. I certainly do. The whole world depends on strong families, and strong families need strong marriages.

There are a lot of women, especially Orthodox women, who are exhausted and overwhelmed because they have tremendous responsibilities. Is the book about how a wife should approach her husband when facing such challenges?

I was overwhelmed and I do not even have children. But I had given myself so many responsibilities because I wanted things done in a certain way. And if my husband tried to help me, I was critical. But I do think that when you have a big family and big holidays that come up, that can be tremendously overwhelming, and life can conspire to make things busy and make you tired. I know that for me, when I am tired and overwhelmed, I do not show up as my best self at all. That is when those unpleasant tendencies are most likely to come out, or when my husband’s foibles are most likely to rub me the wrong way.

It seems that a common theme in the book as to how to handle issues of shalom bayit is for the wife to take a step back and let her husband breathe, to let him handle his own affairs. Is that correct?

Absolutely. I will tell you a quick story about that. One of my students was a CFO of a large private school, so she had a big job and was very good at it. She was also trying to help her husband manage the finances at home, telling him how to save money and how to spend. Her marriage was in big trouble, and there was tremendous distance in that marriage; they were more like roommates than husband and wife. It was also her second marriage. So she read The Surrendered Wife and got an inkling that maybe she could take a step back. One day, her husband asked her about the need for a new cell phone plan. So she said one of the magical phrases that we use, which is “whatever you think,” implying that her husband was able to handle it. Her husband responded that he needed to be told exactly what to do because he did not want to get in trouble. She then reiterated that he can do whatever he thought was right and added the words, “I trust you.” He went away and she was afraid that he was going to mess things up. But he did not; he did just fine. Later that night, he came to her and said, “You were so nice today.” Tears rolled down her cheeks then, and even 20 years later she gets tears in her eyes when she talks about how tragic it would have been if she had thrown this guy out, not realizing that she has become a smother mother to him.

In your book you write, “No matter what your husband does, you will not try to teach, improve, or correct him.” How far does this go? What if he smokes, or vapes? Do we still apply that general principle?

I love this question. Because it certainly seemed clear to me that it was my job to help improve my husband and to tell him when he was doing something that was not good for himself. If he was dressing the wrong way for a job interview, drinking too much, or not driving the right way. I will tell you another quick story. I had a guest on my podcast who was actually the husband of a woman who had recently been through my coach training program. It had very much saved her marriage, which was on the brink of divorce. One of the things he shared was that his wife often told him that he drank too much, and needed to stop drinking as it was ruining his health. His reaction to his wife’s repeated warnings was to drink more. But when his wife decided to trust him and started following the principles of The Surrendered Wife, things started to change. She relinquished control of the finances to her husband and let him know that she had complete trust in his abilities. She did some other things and then, all of the sudden, he felt this full weight of the responsibility for his family on his shoulders. He said that because of the actions of his wife, he is 18 months sober. I was blown away that he would frame it that way. He gave all the credit to his wife.

Sometimes there is a nice ending. But sometimes, the husband has friends that he drinks with, like a men’s club, after Shabbat morning prayers, and they can get drunk. If the wife does not have fond views of these activities, should she say something?

I will tell you yet another story. I have another coach who felt that her husband was an alcoholic. She decided to use what we call a “spouse-fulfilling prophecy,” which is the idea that by believing the best in our spouses, they will live up to and fulfill their obligations. She started saying to her husband how she appreciated that he was a moderate drinker and was able to find some evidence to this effect pointing to one of his friends in the drinking club who drank way more than her husband. She also pointed out to her husband how he never drove drunk. She kept focusing on this and gathering further evidence. Not long thereafter, they were on a cruise. Onboard, there was an event where the protocol was that they can get two free drinks, or upgrade to unlimited drinks for $20. She thought that he would definitely upgrade, however he declined. Surprised, she asked him why he had not chosen to upgrade. He responded that two drinks were enough as he liked to drink moderately. It sounds to me that he had taken on the identity that she had reflected back to him. I think there is enormous power in that notion.

What happens when we have kids in the mix? The father enjoys drinking and smokes on occasion. Children look to their parents constantly as an example and they will often mirror their parents actions. The wife does not want her children to be drinkers and smokers. In these situations, a wife will be more inspired or determined to stop those activities. What approach should she use?

I am not going to dismiss the pain a mother feels about the potential damage that can incur on her children when they see their father behaving irresponsibly. That is very bad modeling. But, I do think that when children see their parents love each other and see that their mother respects their father - regardless of his irresponsible behavior - this kind of modeling might be more powerful and impactful. If she changes the dynamics in her home in favor of shalom bayit, that is going to change everything altogether.

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This article is based on Shiur 378 (7/9/22), “What Should a Wife Do If She Simply Has Had It With Her Husband,” from the Halachic Headlines podcast, hosted by Rabbi Dovid Lichtenstein. This episode was guest hosted by Rabbi Ari Wasserman.